Condoms are free in SA.
Billboards, TV and Radio programs educating people about aids.
And we still blame Mbeki I think its unfair.
Lets say Mbeki said what everyone wants would that have saved those lives?
Sorry for sounding insensitive but Mbeki's word is not the cure for aids. Ayiza....one person who makes a lot of sense here is none other than you. Yes, there are condoms, and nowhere did Mbeki ever say people must not wear them.
To show how myopic and stupid most of the people are. Pope is dead against the use of condom, even in the face of AIDS, but nobody (here save for Duisend) says anything negative. At the height of Mbeki's presidency, we had all those things you mentioned and still people went on to engage in unprotected sex.
It's easier to blame someone for your mistakes than take the rap. There are still people even today, who have unprotected sex, and Mbeki is not the president. So I don't buy that nonsense. Each person must shoulder their own burdens. A chorus of blaming Ayiza or anyone for what an adult does behind their bedroom doors is just plain stupidity.
PS...EDIT **** Trent & Cakes
I don't know whether you were part of Zim$ haters here, if you were forgive me for I'm going to quote him in response to your comments to my response. I've just found this in one of his postings. To date nobody has factually challenged that posting. This is what he posted:
"The question of president Mbeki鈥檚 HIV/Aids purported denialism has been referred to ad nauseum since 2000. Many of those who accuse him of denying the causal link between HIV and Aids do so from a position of ignorance, basing their 鈥渆xpert鈥?judgement on media reports and utterances of commentators. Some journalists are happy that finally they achieved that great adage of gutter journalism that dictates that 鈥渁 lie repeated many times becomes truth鈥?
In 2000, Time Magazine interviewed the president, and when the question of HIV/Aids came up, this what he said:
鈥淚f the scientists say that the virus is part of the variety of things from which people acquire immune deficiency, I have no problem with that. But to say that this is the sole cause and therefore the only response to it is antiretroviral drugs, [then] we鈥檒l never be able to solve the Aids problem. 鈥?If you accept that there can be a variety of reasons, including poverty and the many diseases that afflict Africans, then you can have a more comprehensive treatment response.鈥?br>
These were his exact words. I challenge anybody who disagrees to present the exact words of Mbeki, not what journalists tell us. It requires only a person seriously challenged to fully employ their mental faculties or a mischievous person with a malicious intent, to take the above statement and conclude that the president blatantly denied the causal link between HIV and Aids. Knowledge that HIV/Aids is not the biggest killer in our continent 鈥?malaria, poverty and violent conflict claim more lives than can be attributed to this single syndrome 鈥?is not widely distributed. But ignorance of the truth excuses no one."
In another of Zim$鈥檚 postings, he mentioned one Criselda Kananda. Criselda is HIV positive. She is what you can call an AIDS activist. Part of Zim$鈥檚 post reads 鈥?br>
鈥測ou can google Criselda Kananda and find for yourself. She hosts Positive Talk on Metrofm and those of you living outside South African can get it online. Listen to her first, send her emails or call her, then talk after that. If Criselda (an outspoken activist) refutes that Mbeki ever denied South Africans access to ARVs, who are your sources, good people?鈥?br>
I didn鈥檛 know much about Criselda until that post, and I listened to Criselda on several occasions and Zim was right. I was also one of those who believed this lies spoken about Mbeki until I鈥檝e interacted with Criselda on radio. But the main thing is what Zim said; 鈥渨hat were Mbeki鈥檚 exact words?鈥?/div>
Let's see:
Thabo Mbeki questions the link between the HIV and Aids.
He advocated healthy eating as the primary means of combating the HIV/Aids virus.
He placed a ban on the use of Anti-Retro Virals (ARVs) in South African hospitals.
On top of that Thabo Mbeki is the author of a paper where he compared orthodox AIDS scientists to latter-day Nazi concentration camp doctors and portrayed black people who accepted orthodox AIDS science as "self-repressed" victims of a slave mentality. He described the "HIV/AIDS thesis" as entrenched in "centuries-old white racist beliefs and concepts about Africans".
As a president you are a role model. All education about HIV/AIDS is worth crap if the state leader is an AIDS denier who keeps telling his people that all is not so bad. So yes, I believe he is to blame for loss of life over AIDS.
*EDIT
uhm, Pitso, I agree the catholic church is responsible for a great loss of life especially in African countries and if there is such a thing as hell, the pope will definitely burn in it, just like Johannes Paul II.
But we are not talking about the pope.
Mbeki banned ARV's from use in hospitals. ARV's are being used everywhere (where countries can afford them) to keep AIDS symptoms down. And refusing ill people access to medication that could help them is plain right criminal. YES !!.
Mbeki is (partly) to blame for spreading myths about AIDS.
Were condoms freely available in SA when Mbeki had his weird ideas about the connections of HIV and AIDS ?? I do not think so.
Mbeki was the president of SA when he announced his doubts about the connection between HIV and AIDS. The AIDS-suffering nation believed what their president said, because the ANC did not initially place much importance on the whole nation being literate.
If each person in SA had been able to read and write, they would have been able to form their own opinions on this subject of AIDS and its consequences etc. But, illiterate people believe what they hear, even when the speaker spouts forth a load of nonsense.
And, as others have mentioned, he even supported the stance of the health minister about eating beetroot and garlic to cure or prevent aids.
Perhaps he should have said that smoking dagga prevents aids, because the dagga would have sorted the people out before aids, to give just one silly example.
It is definitely not unfair to blame Mbeki for spreading untruths about AIDS, and maintaining his stance about it for such a long time. Just think how many people believed what he said, and got themselves unwittingly infected because they BELIEVED what he had said. After all, he was supposed to be the the president of the country.
*Edit*
Pitso, the question is about Mbeki麓s role in the spread of AIDS in South Africa, and has nothing to do with the pope麓s comments made about ten years later.
**Edit**
This is what was reported in the papers at that time, if it were not true, why did Mbeki not defend himself ?
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=... I dont think most people understand how policies are passed before implemented. How can one man be responsible ? Most people follow the media and neglect to apply common sense. Truth is it's very true what they were saying about vegetables. But not as a substitute for Anti-retros.
But most importantly: It's just pure politics. In a country with so much economical deficiency, yet so many urgent and pressing needs, blame is to follow regardless. In trying to prioritize, some things u have to "shelf for later" and then support your decision as strongly as u can. Anti-retros are very expensive for the government, and they figured it was the risk they were going to take at the time. Careless, YES. Irrational, NO. In politics, its all relative.
Food for thought: Zuma slept with an HIV positive woman without using a condom, and then "showered to get rid of it". Kwa Zulu Natal holds the highest % of AIDS/HIV infection in SA. If we're talking role models; Who's more responsible the spread of AIDS? Yes Mbeki is partially responsible for the Aids crisis. For the same reasons already mentioned. He was in a position of power and what he did was irresponsible. Manto and her beetroot and garlic(which she did recommend as an alternative to western medicine) and Matthias Rath and his vitamins are also to blame and so is Zuma and his shower rhetoric. Trent hit the nail on the head.
By publicly stating that HIV and AIDS are two different things, and supporting Manto's madness of curing AIDS by eating beetroot, he contributed to the overall problem.
At the end of the day, a lot of people look up to and respect what the president says. He said eat beetroot, and that's what people did. Why would the president lie to them. If he had openly supported providing people with the drugs that they needed, and campaigned to make people aware of what they need to do, the situation might have been better.
Don't get me wrong. I'm not blaming the man for the entire AIDS crisis, that would be unfair. However, he could have done more. It is like Trent said, but the worst thing he did in my opinion was when he supported the health minister after she made those dumb statements about eating garlic to fight aids. Telling people to take anything except the recommended anti-rets is negligent, irresponsible, and stupid. This would be on par with a doctor telling a person with cancer to take some aspirin, the only difference is that the doctor would be held accountable. Then again, the ANC has never put much stock in responsible leadership... I know this may sound strange. I asked a Xhosa lady at work what she thinks about AIDS drugs and she said that many people would stop taking anti-retros once they feel better and so, worsen their health.
It would be an almost impossible task to educate people about taking pills regularly.
We do have free condoms, but young people need more moral guidance, protection and support from the elders in their communities, who are (or were) much stricter. Sadly, with the move to the cities communities have been wrenched apart and who listens to the old folk today? What you are saying is true, but Mbeki had done a very risky thing when he seemingly campained in a negative manner. Here is the crux of the situation: he is a public figure-very popular, influential and admired! Society look up to public figures or celebrities....that's why they are use for campaigns, public service announcements and other forms of messaging! They have influence! Imagine how many people look up to Mbeki-how many decided in their minds to act recklessly because of his influence. Think of it as having a hero, if that hero of yours shared his opinion with you and you kind of understood his point wouldn't you later adopt that mindset??? I agree - Mbeki did partially contribute because of his attitude, so did Zuma for that matter ..... but in the end i think it's every body's own choice, all the facts are there, only you can decide, unless it is rape, there is a lot of information and discussions about safe sex almost everywhere, if people would just listen and learn ... i am not judging anyone when i say this I think we are all guilty for the loss of life over AIDS . Beside the government what was the trade union stand on AIDS.While their members were victims the unions were supporting the government's polices on AIDS.
It was not unfair to blame the head for his words and thoughts on AIDS are in print. He is guilty too. I think the POPE has outdone Mbeki by telling black people that condoms is the cause of aids. Don't you think so? |
