Should I be kicked out of the Navy for this offense?

So i'm going to captains mast for Article 92 (failure to obey an order). I am getting discharged from the Navy due to the substance abuse/zero tolerance policy.

Now heres where it gets interesting.

I never popped on a piss test.
The Navy's "controlled substance list" is any substance listed in the DEA Schedules 1-5 unless prescribed.
I never possessed an illegal substance.
I never possessed a scheduled substance.
And get this, I bought it at a 7/11.

Now what was it?
SALVIA.

Please, dont lecture me, I scored a 98 on the ASVAB and have a top secret clearance. I have never been UA, never been late for watch, never been NJP'd, and above all, I have had 3 EP evals IN A ROW.

Now according to the Navy OPNAV on drug/substance abuse, It states that any substance natural or manmade cannot be used in a manner that can alter the mind.

I used salvia as a sleeping aid.. (yes believe it or not, in small quantities it will put you to sleep not make you hallucinate).

Now back to the OPNAV.... "that can alter your mind"

Someone please tell me, what the hell does alcohol do to you?

So bottom line, they found this in my room, confiscated it etc.

I do not find it fair nor just that I may be seperated for something that is LEGAL in the united states, but unbeknownst to me, illegal in the navy. There was never any awareness training etc.

Oh and heres another thing..... 3 days ago a shipmate got only 20 days of restriction for the following offenses, 4 months after he got to our command:

Underage DUI (thats 2 US broken laws)
UA from work the next morning for 1.5 hours because he was in jail (UCMJ offense)
False Official statement (UCMJ Offense)
Drove a shipmate while drunk (UCMJ Offense)

20 days of restriction...is the Navy ******* politics or what...would love to hear your comments on this issue...

PS I cannot get a JAG lawyer until AFTER my captains mast.. i have 5 days to request court martial..

PPS. If found guilty at court martial, the penalties are MUCH more severe. So its a huge risk to take. At least if i get kicked out by my CO, it wont be anything worse than an Admin Sep.

If kicked out by court martial it can be Anything... including bad conduct or dishonorable... bye bye jobs...

There are several substances that are not allowed by the US Military, but are legal, not only in the states but overseas.
Unfortunately not knowing is not a valid excuse or reason. If your conduct, and work ethic are s good as you say your CO should take that into consideration when at Mast. Be well prepared for mast and speak the facts, do not get emotional. You are not discharged yet, that is just an option the CO has in regards to punish met. If this in fact is your first "offense" and you ar a valuable asset you may be ordered to substance abuse classes, hold your tongue and temper your you may end up in Anger Management classes as well. Best of Luck, speak to your Chief, they are not out to get you.

My husband is in the Navy and they clearly told them that Salvia was considered illegal to them.
Im not sure if you should be kicked out for a first offense like that?
But they are discharging people a lot these days for stupid stuff because they have a surplus of people in the Military.

have you considered asking one of the lawyers that advertise in the back of "Navy Times"? At least maybe you can get a dime's worth or advice from them.

I would tell them the same things you listed here and hope for the best.

P.s.. I wouldnt advertise your clearance level if I were you, for security reasons.

Did they at least buy you a drink before they f****d you?

No you should not be kicked out for that.

Isn't that just sage, like used in cooking?

Is there no right of appeal?

Get yourself a JAG asap and fight it.

EDIT:

You make a good point. I don't know what to tell you.

If it is on the list of banned items for the Navy...and many of the supplements you can buy at your local Walmart are banned by the services for a variety of reasons...you may have to face some form of punishment. Not knowing why the military has banned the use of the saliva based product you had purchased (possibly because it is seen as a making agent or because saliva can pass on any number of illnesses...your PCM should be able to tell you) I can't say why they are taking such a hard line on finding it. The military can, and has, banned the use of many substances that are legal in the civillian world. You are expected to know what is allowed and what isn't. In the eyes of the military court system it IS a controlled substance, but not a narcotic, hence the different UCMJ article. I agree, you need to speak with a lawyer immediately. There may be other issues you are unaware of or that you have left out here simply because they do not strike you as being pertinent. However, only a JAG lawyer can really explain what is going on.

Yes, you should be discharged because you broke the Navy's rules. Salvia IS a controlled substance in the Navy!!! They put it on the list of controlled substances a year or so ago. So what you did was illegal.

Is the law right? HELL NO! Salvia is amazing and has huge medicinal potential! One should not have to be considered a criminal for ingesting a plant, especially one with such potential. However, rules are rules and whenever you disobey them you run the risk of getting in trouble.

The only defense you have is ignorance. Were you given a list of banned substances by the Navy? If not, then you have no way of knowing it was illegal. Look into it from that angle. I hope it works out in your favor.

http://www.erowid.org/plants/salvia/salv...

SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT 5300!

I'M AMAZED THAT I KNOW ABOUT THE FACT SALVIA IS AN ILLEGAL SUBSTANCE IN THE NAVY AND YOU DO NOT.

Enough shouting, only did it because you're trying to make me appear like i don't know what the hell i'm talking about.

As i said!!! Ignorance is your best and only defense. Since it appears you genuinely did not know about the fact it's an illegal substance in the Navy, then you might have a case. You better get a good lawyer to help you with this.


P.S. You can wire my $20 bucks to account number 123456789 routing number 987654321 Thanks!!!!!!

the type of salvia you had isn't a common cooking herb it is used to alter a persons state of mind even if only for a few minutes. it is illegal in some states although not all of them. you are in trouble because you broke the rules and i don't think i believe for a second that you had it to help you sleep, if you are as smart as you say you are you should take responsibility for doing something really stupid, and move on to a different career where your actions don't effect the safety of the people around you.

Salvia IS NOT LEGAL IN THE MILITARY> never has been and probably never will be. The Navy has every right to restrict its usage. and that means if they decree that salvia is not allowed then guess what.. you disobeyed a standing order.



so yes you deserve the Captain's Mast.

My first question is the person that had the UDUI etc. are they the same rank as you? Many times the rank of the person receiving the punishment has a lot to do with the severity of the punishment.
If the other person you are talking about in your question is the same rank, same job, in the same unit etc. and you feel like you are being picked on you can file harassment or equal opportunity.
If you want to stay in the Navy, I would defiantly request a court martial. You will get kicked out if you do not request one, so you may as well request one because than you may have a chance.
You may not be able to get a JAG lawyer as a defense attorney prior to your Captain's mast, but you always have the right to consult a JAG lawyer. I would defiantly go talk to a JAG lawyer ASAP and ask for advice... the are the experts after all.

Somebody does not like you..... you pissed off somebody real bad

I am thinking it is your CO.....or someone your CO supports.....He is the convening authority..... under those conditions your @ss is grass.....
You can seek JAG legal counsel anytime..... before during and after captains mast.....

You have two options.... roll over and take it in the butt......or request a court martial and make them PROVE the charge..... I think you have a good chance at a Courts Martial.... it takes things out of the CO's hands......but if you win.....get a transfer ..... these people want your @ss..... it is your butt.....it is your career..... it is your decision
You might also complain to the IG.....

EDIT.... You do not like what I said so far....I just based it on 30 years in the military....guess you could know better... I have given the Army's equivelent of "Captain's Mast" (Art 15).....I have served as a defense attorney.... served on courts martial boards.....and was even courts martialed once (for disobeying an order coincidently).....but I guess you know best
The fact that they are charging you with disobeying an order.....may be a break for you....??? .... They must now prove you received and understood the order.... and willfully disobeyed the order..... If they posted the order on the bulletin board or announced it in a formation which you attended.... but they have to prove you had or should of had knowledge..... the lower on the disciplinary chain you are the greater the chance for personal bias..... a courts martial is reviewed by the higher command.....the punishment is potentially less bias..... if you are innocent your chances of having it thrown out are greater..... seek legal counsel......you may not be able to "get a lawyer".....but you can get legal counsel ANYTIME..... get professional help now.....later will be too late

I think you know you should not expect the military's drug policy to make any sense.
Don't you have a court date to argue your case before somebody? Get a JAG lawyer if possible to help you.
No I think it's ridiculous that you should lose your job, but that's the problem of dealing with a huge, politicized bureaucracy.
But you also never told us what the "disobaying orders" claim was - was that the drug offense or something else you forgot to tell us about?
And when did they start blood testing for salvia? You'd better make a good argument you were taking it for sleeping, and bring the bottle and receipt from 7/11 with you.
Good luck.

When you're at "Captain's Mast" be honest, tell him everything, and make sure its the truth. Just because you go to captain's mast doesn't always mean that you're going to be hung out to dry. If you have a clean record, that should, and probably will, be taken into consideration. I went to captain's mast for a security breech in the 70s, and I didn't know I was doing anything wrong, I told him that, and I told him the truth, he took my clean record into consideration, and they gave me extra duty for 30 days, and confined me to the ship for a week.

But, under the UCMJ, they can get you for anything they want, especially if someone has a hard-on for you.

Good Luck!!!