Why does my brother who is dying of aides not understand why I will not let him kiss me or my children?

My brother has aids. He is dying. His first partner died of aids and now his second partner has it. His partner is HIV positive. He and his partner are angry because I have told them I do not want them kissing me or my 4 children. I have two friends that are infectious disease doctors and 1 who is an internal medicine doctor who can NOT guarantee that aids can NOT be transferred to us. Two of his friends are angry with me and I really do not care. I would like to know from someone who is gay if most gay people take a very uncaring and narrowminded position like this.

This is probably not gonna be a popular answer, but...I'm gay and I can understand where you're coming from. I don't think how you feel is wrong. You obviously love your brother, or you wouldn't even allow your kids to visit him. If your not comfortable with your kids kissing him, then he should be ok with that. Although the possibility of your kids getting HIV is almost 0, there is still a tiny, tiny chance that it might happen. If this makes you uncomfortable, than as a parent you have the right to make the decision.

As a gay man, I know how caddy gay people can be. They probably see your not allowing the kisses as some kind of political slap or some narrow minded viewpoint...when in actuality your just being a little over-protective of your kids. Like I said earlier, your brother is lucky that his straight brother (or sisiter) is cool with him being gay, is allowing his kids to be a part of his life, and is actually concerned enough to seek advice as to what effect a kiss might have on his kids. A lot of people in the gay community who have HIV are completely cut off from their families. I'm sure your brother is understandably emotional right now, I would try to explain to him your position, defenses down, and move on. If he doesn't understand your position then he is in the wrong. I defiantly wouldn't worry about his friends, explain it to them if you feel it's necessary...but it really isn't any of there business.

HIV is not an airborne disease like TB, which can spread if someone coughs. Kissing someone on the cheek poses absolutely no risk of HIV infection. None. Unless there is an open, gaping wound. This isn't a matter of being pc. It's a matter of education vs. appalling ignorance. Report It

Whatever Angry Gay man....it's a matter of a parent making the decision she feels is best for her kids....even if she's wrong...(which she probably knows that she is) it's still her decision.... Report It

No we dont, we see the person not the disease.

There are four fluids that can carry and transmit HIV: blood, semen, vaginal fluids, and breast milk. Saliva doesn't transmit it.

It is, however, THEORETICALLY possible to contract HIV through kissing. If both partners have cuts or sores in the mouth or bleeding gums (like after brushing or flossing your teeth), infected blood could possibly be exchanged. However, in practice this is EXTREMELY unlikely. There is something about saliva and the environment of the mouth that is inhospitable to the virus. Like all safe sex, kissing is a matter of managing risks. If you are aware of cuts or sores in your mouth, it is best to abstain from "deep kissing," but in general kissing is one of the safest sexual activities.

I'm not gay -- in fact, I've often taken exception to the "gay rights" political agenda on this board -- but I think that it's extremely unlikely that your kids will get AIDS if your brother kisses them.

Your kids probably have a much greater risk of dying in a household accident, or of dying in a bus accident on the way to school.

Of course, at the end of the day, they are your kids and it's your decision. And whatever you decide, people should respect it -- even if they don't like it.

But having said that, I would let my brother kiss my kids if I were you.

.

gosh, you are so rude. What a horrible hypocritical thing to assume that gay people are "uncaring" and "narrowminded"- OF COURSE THEY CARE YOU FOOL. Gosh, try to be a little bit more considerate to your brother, he s dying and would therefore like to be as affectionate with his family as possible. If you really are so insistent that he doesn't kiss you, then just explain to him kindly that you love him, but you don't want your kids to become infected.

I am not gay and not homophobic either. I say to you love your brother, but protect your kids. The experts say there is a very low chance of passing HIV through kissing. stick to hand shakes and hugs.

oh how sad. How sad for your children who you prevent from kissing your brother. How sad you think it can be transferred from kissing because one doctor says so.

I am a nurse. Darling kiss your brother. It is only transferred from blood to blood contact. NOT mucous to mucous.

Kissing is mainly mucous. No blood involved.

Unless your children or you had a cut lip and your brother too then there is NO way for aids to be passed on to you or your children.

Your brother must feel so sad not being able to give them a kiss.

Darling kiss your brother, he is probably the only one you have got. And he may not be around much longer to share the times with. You will look back and regret not giving him a family kiss.

I sure do hope you change your mind.

...... I believe YOU'RE the one who is narrow-minded and unedcuated. Go read some articles about transferring AIDS.

In fact, HERE:

Sexual contact
The majority of HIV infections are acquired through unprotected sexual relations between partners, one of whom has HIV. Sexual transmission occurs with the contact between sexual secretions of one partner with the rectal, genital or oral mucous membranes of another. Unprotected receptive sexual acts are riskier than unprotected insertive sexual acts, with the risk for transmitting HIV from an infected partner to an uninfected partner through unprotected insertive anal intercourse greater than the risk for transmission through vaginal intercourse or oral sex. Oral sex is not without its risks as HIV is transmissible through both insertive and receptive oral sex.[48] The risk of HIV transmission from exposure to saliva is considerably smaller than the risk from exposure to semen; contrary to popular belief, one would have to swallow gallons of saliva from a carrier to run a significant risk of becoming infected.[49]

Read the last line, and put it through your brain. Why the hell would homosexuals have relations with others who have AIDS/HIV if they couldn't kiss safely!?! Saliva is OKAY, you numbnut.

Look at the pot calling the kettle black! You are so heck bent on being "correct" on this matter, that you are rejecting the closeness that your brother is so desperately needing and wanting. Why, with a cold fish like you - I'm not certain. Everything about your question reeks of righteous indignation -- as if you are the injured party. All I can say is "Shame on you."
There are other ways of expressing closeness, and I don't see you offering that up to him - like warm, affectionate hugs. If he only wanted a kiss and nothing else, maybe you'd have a point - but you aren't saying that. You seem to be rejecting your brother just at a point where he needs you most. This isn't a gay thing with your brother or your friends -- but perhaps it's a homophobic thing with you and your self importance. Get off of your soap box, this ain't about you lady -- it's about your dying brother wanting some comfort and connectedness to his family. If you care one iota about him, I strongly suggest you clean up your act before it's too late. Someday, that person in the hospital bed suffering may be you -- and, maybe you will have some devastating virus that causes one to become isolated. You are teaching your children to treat such persons like lepers. Then, this circle will widen - and corrode what little understanding and empathy you have planted in their hearts. I strongly suggest you educate yourself more fully and not look for guarantees about kissing, and perhaps find ways to be close without swapping spit, if that's what you're concerned about. There is still time to alter your perspective. You don't need gays opinions or medical opinions. You need to find your humanity. Where did you ever lose it? Is there any hope to find it before it's too late? The choice is yours. I strongly urge you to do the right thing.

FYI, AIDS doesn't spread through physical contact (unless it is sexual contact or, by very bad luck, the person with AIDS and the AIDS-free person both have an open cut, and the cuts meet, making infected blood mix).

I see why your brother is dying, you are taking him to a doctor that don't know what he is doing. I have been HIV+ for 13 years seen lots of doctors and they all agree that you cannot get aids by kissing, but you do need to get your brother to a better doctor, there is people in my support group that has been HIV+ for 24 years and they are all very health.

As long as there's no tongue action between you, your kids, and your brother you're all fairly safe. As for your friends with the medical degrees go, they're required to answer like they did for legal reasons. Your kids are more likely get struck by lightning sometime in their lifetime than they are to get AIDS from a quick peck on the cheek from their dying uncle.

im not gay, but as you said your doctor friends cannot guarantee that it will not be transferred to you, but did they specify how can it be transferred to you? im sure they cant also guarantee that it will be transferred to you by kissing. usually AIDS is not transmissible by saliva, why? because saliva is such a harsh environment for HIV to live in, Know you HIV is very vulnerable outside the body. the risk of transmitting HIV via kissing exists because the possiblity of blood in the saliva which could be infectious. but saliva itself cant be a resevoir for HIV.

you are upset that your brother and his friends dont get your point and is a good point to protect yourself and family, but its normal for your brother to feel upset and mad because he feels rejected, isolated, maybe he just wants love and support that you may not provide because your too afraid or he just wants a family. and the way you reacted to him probably as he seen it is an act of of rejection and disgust. its easy to understand someone if you try to put yourself in that persons shoe but i dont know who didnt try doing that.

AIDS IS NOT TRANSMITTED THROUGH SALIVA! JEESH!!!

He does not understand because you are the one being uncaring and narrowminded. AIDS is not transmissable by saliva, and even if it was I doubt he'd be swapping spit with you or your kids. Just because it is not absolutely set in stone does not mean that it is an infinitesimally small chance that the virus would even make it into your/kids body, let alone cause HIV. You're denying him the opportunity to demonstrate affection toward you and your children when he is dying, so that's why he's so upset!

you should hang your head in shame. hiv can not be transmitted from a peck on the cheek. and those doctors should be tossed out of the medical community asap. it's you who are being narrowminded and uncaring. your brother has a terminal illness, if it were any other disease you wouldn't be so callous and unthoughtful. i suggest you contact your local red cross or hiv clinic and take a class. you need to understand the actual way this disease is transmitted. you're acting out of fear, and you'll regret your actions after your brother is gone. educate yourself, and then you'll KNOW there is nothing to fear.peace

Nobody can guarantee that your children won't be run over and hit by a truck tomorrow...but there is probably more chance of that happening than them getting aids from kissing your brother.
If you don't care, as you say you don't, then why are you asking this question? I think your behaviour is one of very poor judgement in this issue...but you have already made up your mind. I think it's your , your children's (and unfortunately your brother's) loss.

You are acting on a preceived and real duty that you feel to protect your immediate family (yourself and your children) in this regard. It does seem to be overprotective considering the extreme unlikelihood of transmission given any reasonable epidiological factors. You appear to be fearful in this regard for yourself and for your children. This is evidenced by your choice of emotionally charged words and phrases in your question, which is understandable when dealing with family issues; we all do this.
I am sorry for your brothers' condition and the impact it must be having on you and your family. Your emotional reaction may reach somewhat deeper than his AIDS condition and may also be a reflection of a discomfort you might feel for his lifestyle and how that might reflect upon you.
I would certainly ask that you consider how you might be overprotective in other ways by way of comparison to this situation. Do you follow your kids to school to sterilize their hands with alcohol each time they get on the monkey bars? Do you wrap them in bubble wrap in the event that they might get hit by a stray ball at the playing field? Do you make them walk instead of getting in dangerous cars?
You understand that you cannot protect them from all things and that the probability of getting staph, strep or some other disease is far higher each and every day than the occassional loving peck on the cheek from their uncle.
Again, while I cannot fault you for protecting your family, the long-term psychological damage it might due to them and to your relationship with them as they grow older and resent you for this might not be worth the short-term, UNPRESCEDENTED possibility of a one-in-a billion transmission.

I don't know that it's something you could really call an 'uncaring and narrowminded position,' although I may be biased because I can see his view a little better than I can see yours.

He's angry because your rejection hurts him; and even if it is based on understandable grounds, it still hurts. In fact, that hurt makes it even harder for him to understand your fear.

I have no idea how to resolve it, though. I can't tell you that the doctors are wrong; the risk of transferring aids through a nonsexual kiss (or even a sexual one) is extremely low (in fact, I've never heard of it happening,) but it can't be ruled out with absolute certainty. And I can't tell him not to take your reaction to that personally.

I do understand your worries. Of course you are worried, you are thinking about the lives of your children. Which is only coming out of your love for them. This is to me very understandable.

But there is a big tragedy in this. Your friends are wrong, it NEVER happened that someone got infected by saliva. If you are worried too much and still want to avoid any risk what so ever, you and your children could still hugg and cuddle your brother! No bodily fluids are involved in that!
But honestly, they will not get infected.
The tragedy is that your brother is dying, and you take away the affection and love from his family that he needs the most right now. It must be so hard for him not being able to hugg the ones he loves! That must make him very sad and lonely, and girl, he is dying!
For you as well. How it must feel that you can no more hugg your brother! You might regret that a lot when he is no longer there.
Honey, everyone dying from AIDS has a family. No-one ever got the disease from kissing or hugging their familymember.
Search for more information about this subject and you will find out that this is something many people have struggled with before, and that there truely is no risk with kissing or hugging.
Give yourself, your children and your brother the chance to give and get the love everyone needs... please... don't let him die without that love!

God..Where do I begin.1st it is not ur brother or his friends that are being so narrow minded.There is absolutely and positively no way that HIV can be transmitted thru a closed mouth kiss on the cheek forehead etc.Any Doctor will tell u this or they should go back to med school.2nd u need to do ur own research about how this dreadful disease is transmitted.It will enlighten you, stymie ur concerns and quite possibly extricate that large bug out of ur ***.This is your brother for Christ sake!!!! Unfortunately I have lost way too many friends from this over the years.I never never stopped loving them,caring for them,hugging them or kissing them.I have bathed them,changed their diapers,shaved them,given them meds .In fact anything they needed I have done. And I am HIV negative.You cannot justify your actions by being ill-informed.Actually you and your children are in far more danger of killing him by exposing him to all the germs you carry and his compromised immune system cannot fight.From his point of view he probably doesn't even think about this or even care.You need to be with him at this time in his life.You need to hug him,hold him and kiss him; for his time is so short and will be a painful departure.What kind of compassion are you teaching ur kids??You my friend are a self-centered,sanctimonious,ill-informed... and uncompassiionate real piece of work.Get over your-self and on with ur life.He is and will always be your brother.

I am a realist and do not believe all that I hear from the medical community who release their data through an army of lawyers and hospital adminstrators. what a bunch of whining people have answered here. what if in 5 years we find out that all of the these people are incorrect and you have a child with a horrible disease that could have been prevented. I have friends who work for the Center of Disease Control in Atlanta and they tell me that because of the influx of people into the USA, there are 4 strains of Aids right now that are Under the microscope of 2 major drug companies. Their origin - Hondurans. All of these people sound alike and it sounds like the same source brainwashed them especially the medical professionals. My God, I will be relectant to allow any nurse or doctor touch me now

Unless you are tongue kissing AND have an open sore in your mouth (or just ate Capt Crunch) you are the one who is uncaring and narrow minded.

If you are tongue kissing your gay brother you have bigger problems than we can deal with here.

You know what, I had a friend that was 30 years old when he died of AIDS, I would have done anything in the world for him. The night before he died, I slept in a chair next to his hospital bed, and held his hand and just an hour before he died, I went to pick up his mother, she walked in the room and kissed him and they told each other they loved them and he died.
I wish people would read and study these things, before they jump to conclusions and hurt people when it is unneccessary.

He's your brother, so I'll assume you're not deep kissing. The risk of getting the disease from other kissing is SO low, it may as well be nonexistent. No one's going to guarantee you it's impossible, because it's not impossible: it's just REALLY REALLY unlikely. I try not to judge people on something like this, but at the same time I think you should at least understand what the odds actually are that you're in any danger. If I were in his position, I'd definitely feel hurt and abandoned though.

It would probably be much better for your brother if you simply disappear fromhis life. He needs caring, loving, friends and family around and you simply are not footing the bill. He would be better off if you simply vanish.

I hope you reap what you have sown so bountiful.

GOOD FOR YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!
Sad, but true. Don't give in !!!!!! You are right. The gay thing- I have never known any gay people who weren't uncaring and narrowminded when something or someone didn't fit their agenda. That's just how it is/ how they are, in my experience. I knew some in college and today- friends of friends- they are that way !

While there is no positive proof that AIDS cannot be transmitted through saliva, there is no positive proof that it can't either, I applaud your caution in regard to your children. The little ones must be kept safe .