Separation of Church and State?

I hope I don't offend anyone for being an Aussie commenting on American religious politics, but isn't it contradictory that it is a cornerstone of American policy overseas to promote secular government(Particularly in the middle east) while fashioning domestic policy in line with a purely religious perspective? There are many examples I could choose from, but I will cite only one: Gay marriage.

The opposition to gay marriage is one-hundred percent religion-based. There is no legal justification for opposing it, yet the government opposes it on this very basis.

Christians, how do you justify this contradiction? Before you answer, imagine for a second if you happened to live in a state where religious beliefs you didn't agree with national policy. It appears that America can decry the Taliban, yet see no hypocrisy in "faith-based initiatives", keeping God in the Pledge of Allegiance, refusing HIV assistance to those countries who do not accept the abstinence agenda, etc.

I didn't word part of the above very well. I meant that the government, in regards to gay marriage, publicly acknowledges that its opposition is solely inspired by religion; this, despite there being no legal justification for the ban.

Actually it is very appropriate for you as an outsider to be asking. Sometimes we cannot see the forest for the trees. An outside view could be just what we need to correct ourselves. They won't listen to me. Perhaps they will listen to you as an outsider.

"contradictory..." ... Well, absolutely.
But the US Xian Right wants to CONTROL the country...

"We have enough votes to run the country. And when the people say, "We've had enough," we are going to take over." - Pat Robertson

christians dont believe in seperation of church and state.

they dont care what the country was founded on as long as they can control it.

you make good point, there should be no argument over gay marriage.

damn good point... hear hear.

I agree with you, except for the last statement. I think there should be a separation of church and state but not morality and state.

The problem with America is any more its the few vs the stupid in regards to elections and politics and policy.

Here, here! Use this:
Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

There are a lot of Americans who agree with you... and then they get up and move to somewhere else like I hope to do someday so nothing changes. >.>

Oh, that's just the tip of the iceberg.

While we (apparently) like Christianity in our politics, we don't want it in South American politics, where it tends to have a "liberation theology" that is decidedly left-wing. We also staunchly support secularism in Turkey, where a clear majority of the public wants some amount of theocracy.

Outside of religion, you might do well to notice the US support of Pinochet. And yet, we oppose Hugo Chavez.

It takes only a quick review of US Foreign Policy that regardless of whether Republicans or Democrats are in control, the deciding factors in foreign policy are unrelated to promoting democracy, secularism, or human rights. At most, it's a "nice to have" for the better presidents like Clinton.

It is separation of non-Christian church and state. We call it hypocrisy here. I'm sure you do too.

I understand your argument and tend to agree to some degree. I am American AND a Christian. It bothers me to no end the way some politicians incorporate religion into their decisions but I understand in some ways. Our politicians are elected, therefore, they feel the need to vote on things the way the general public would. And in America, the general public is pretty conservative when it comes to marriage, sex, child rearing, etc. These are sensitive topics in any country. The difference is U.S. politicians don't vote based on a religion that actively seeks to kill large numbers of innocent people. Yes, I know the history of Christianity and that hundreds of years ago,Christians were the ones killing people. i don't condone either example and we certainly can't let that kind of hatred stand in the modern age. You're trying to compare 2 very different things when you discuss American politics and the Taliban.

You have not offended...I am an American and I agree with you 100%. Abortion, Stem Cell research, Gay marraige, even Federal holidays (mostly Christian) all apply. They should not be decided by the Goverment if, as you say, the US Government promotes Secular Gov. How do we separate Church and State? What will happen if we elect a Mormon President? Thanks for the insight.

This particular clause in the American constitution prevents government interference with the free exercise of religion, not the other way around (Despite what certain secular groups would have you believe).

Marriage is a contract between 2 individuals (traditionally male and female) for the purposes of creating a stable environment for raising children. It has been shown in many studies that both father and mother play an important role in child development. There is also the issue of sex. Male-Female sex results in children, continuation of the species. Other forms of sex do not. When considering the act of sex itself, STDs are more likely to be transmitted during sodomy than vaginal sex because there is more friction, thus more tearing of the skin.

God does not give us rules for no reason.

I truly think the Christian Coalition is confused about who Jesus Christ actually is.
I am against gays, but I am also against anyone trying to force people to do what is in the Bible by forcing them to obey a law they made up.
It's dumb.
Don't generalize.
The religious right want a theocracy, not a democracy.

thank you... the problem is most of these people have never been out of a 5 state region, let alone europe, canada, australia, etc. to see that same sex marriages/unions, when allowed to be had, don't blow up the world. people are so afraid of seeing gay couples, and interracial couples that it saddens me. my gf of a year is white, and her family still ''jokingly'' tries to set her up with other guys behing my back, completely underminding me. i live in france at the moment, and i've seen less ''evidence'' of same sex couples here than i have back home. i say that because there's no need to prove any point here, as opposed to back home. i've befriended a gay couple here in france, and have yet to see them making out after three weeks of hanging out. heterosexual couples don't normally go into random public making out sessions, and neither do same sex couples.

Many Christians feel it is their "god given right" to push their beliefs on others. So they do it with the government. Banning stem cell and gay marriage for example.

It makes this country and it's people look like hypocrites.

Its kind of hard to draw the line. By allowing it are you condoning it? By separating church and state are you elevating state above the church? To many people allowing is the same as condoning.

Another thing to consider is what is marriage. Most Christians take the term marriage very seriously. They feel it is a union between a man and woman sanctioned and blessed by God. They feel that allowing homosexuals to call themselves married would erode the value of marriage itself, and give it less meaning.

Personally I could care less. I feel that homosexuals are not going anywhere, and while I don't condone it, I feel that they are human and deserve the same rights as others. I strongly believe in separation of church and state. Many were expecting a political Messiah in Jesus, but he was far from it. So if you are going to profess religious freedom, your laws should be free of religion...Bringing back states' rights would go a long way in solving these kinds of problems in my opinion....but I am not going to get into a critique of the federal government right now.

Why do you think I would like the US government to under go a radical change? I believe is should be 100% secular both in domestic and foreign affairs.

You are absolutely correct!

I imagine though that part of the plan is to promote secularism in the middle east in order to have a better chance at converting people to Christianity. Kind of hard to convert people to a religion that their government sees as being blasphemous. It's not that the powers-that-be in the US support a secular society. They just don't want the society to be Islamic.

The U.S. isn't even a democracy. It's a representative republic, which leads to bizarre and it's winner take all policy (state by state) for the Presidential election.

No one can afford to run unless they have huge corporate backing. And then there was Florida, when they put off the recounts until the Supreme Court ruled it was too late to bother and awarded the presidency to GWB. Was it Cuba that offered to send election monitors?

Hypocrisy is woven through all U.S. foreign policy. It's just that the cheerleaders for the religious aspects shout the loudest.

Ha, ha. An Aussie trying to ask a reasonable question about american politics. He doesn't realize that reason is irrelevant. The opposition to gay marriage is made by people who cannot think for themselves and who are extremely selfish and self-centered. Your last paragraph is quite correct, unfortunately.

You are absolutely correct. The US policy is basically, Our way or we 'bomb you back to the Stone age' way, I think that was the phrase used.

First of All Separation of Church and State are not with our Constitution - they made 'another' form for it - official yes but still!

Hello Aussie - I Love Sidney! Beautiful!

As far as being a Christian opposed to homosexuality - Honestly! It is in Leviticus, Matthew, 1 Corinthians, and in the later gospels of the Bible (I use KJV).

Must this be a matter that anyone has to 'fight' for? Not me I'm not going to do anything against them - I just do not agree with them or their life-style. I do pray for them quietly in my own home. If meet someone of that pershuation I will talk with them, laugh with them and most likely enjoy my time with them - however, I will not become (regular type) friends with them - It IS a sin and I can not agree with SIN!

I try to live according to the Bible - I use the KJV. I've been to 42 different countries! I've spent as long as 7 months! I did not stay in motels except a very few times. Marraige is spoken about throughout the Bible - God Himself Honors Marraige - Between a Woman and Man - NEVER ANYTHING ELSE!

As far as Gay Marraige - NO!!!!! That is Completely Un-Natural - Not Right - Not Normal - Not Holy!!!!!!!! NO, NO, NO!

I am also a former Shock Trauma Registered Nurse - Level 1! I use to work in San Fransisco General in the Aids Unit - I've NEVER refused ANY form of care to ANYONE or Testing with complete privacy for them!

As far as the Taliban - How Dare You - We are NOT making Decry's to them - but honestly - you mean to tell me it's alright to shoot a woman in the head because you didn't like the way she cooked your dinner!!!!!! Or wanted to leave you???!!!!! What - little girls can't go to school or read books?????? That is Monsterous NO MATTER WHO they are!!!!!

As far as calling it "faith-based initiatives." Got news for you much of what our troops are doing - I don't call it 'faith based' I support them and pray for their safety but they are working according to the Bible! Thankfully - UNLIKE the Taliban or Al-Qada I can (as an America Believe as I choose)! People like that - Osama and the Taliban - you do not have 'That' choice - you MUST BE MUSLIM or die! What? You think that this is Right?!!!!! My God No!

As far as HIV medical assitance - That is one medical problem that is VERY WELL treated here and Everywhere else! I'm AMAZED that you would make such a statement - Our President - just sent 100 Billion for Aids Treatment to Africa - they are not the Only country to benifit from all that money! He had already given 50 Billion Earlier and apparently that did so much and he doubled it!

You say that we are Hypocratic - Interesting! I think that you should look in the mirror! The people of Europe are NOT getting the TRUTH on what and who We in AMERICA are!!!!! That is to do with the European Union - WHOOOOOO!

We have the RIGHT - Thank God! I choose to live however we want and believing what we want - Even Muslim or Morman or Christian or Catholic or Jewish or Democrat - Republican - Independant - or Nothing at all - Whatever we want - Liberal Conservative - Republican or Nothing Listed! We can believe ANY way we choose!

I choose to live as a Christian - Republican - Conservative - Married to my husband and Monogomas! I am VERY Happy and BLESSED!

I may not agree with someone when they believe one way or another - that does not matter to me! I have friends some that are Christian some that are not - some who are polically Liberal or like me Conservative - I even have friends who don't even claim one party or other or anything - their choice - they have 'That' right! I have friends who have money and some who don't. I don't look at things like that. I look at a persons Heart to decide if I will communicate and be friends with them or not. I have many Wonderful Friends and they are Very Important to me!

The Taliban and Muslims are -Not the REAL TRUTH! My God - I look only to HIM!

Please Be at Peace - Accept the Grace of God!

Take Care and God Bless!